M.Scott Peck and Sam Vaknin disagree on whether narcissists are evil.


Is it evil to belittle, denigrate, scapegoat, and make fun of someone until they are demoralized, subjugated, and  traumatized?  Is the verbal and emotional abuser who keeps his victim in suspense and fear an evil  person?  Is the person with the need to control others evil?

According to M. Scott Peck, M.D,  psychiatrist and author of The People of The Lie, the answer is yes.

According to Peck, most of us view a situation in light of how we are affected by it and only as an afterthought do we stop to consider how it might affect others involved;  we do eventually consider the viewpoint of the other.

Not so those who are evil. Theirs is a brand of narcissism so total that they seem to lack this capacity for  empathy…. We can see then, that their narcissism makes the evil dangerous not only because it motivates them to scapegoat others, but  also because it deprives them of the restraint that results from empathy and  respect for others….The evil need victims to sacrifice to their narcissism, their narcissism permits them to ignore the humanity of their victims as well. ..The blindness of the narcissist  to others can extend beyond a lack of empathy; narcissists  may not “see” others at all.


Stopping The Narcissist and Concept of Evil

If you have ever lived in quiet desperation fearing the release of  rage from the narcissist, then decided to stop the abuse, you have been the victim of a campaign designed to destroy you.  It is as systematic and well thought out as that of any battle plan of war.

Sam Vaknin disagrees:

As opposed to what Scott Peck says, narcissists are not evil – they lack the intention to cause harm. They are simply indifferent, callous and careless in their conduct and in their treatment of their fellow humans.

I read this and recognize the narcissism in the words.  Because Sam is a narcissist, he can say “simply indifferent”. Sam does not see that indifference is not simple.  The results of indifference, callousness and carelessness are destructive and malignant.  In a talk he gave at the White House, Elie Wiesel, concentration camp survivor and philosopher, says that from anger and hatred we can often make a difference, but to be indifferent is evil.

Using the argument that by definition evil people have no choice in their actions (even if it harms them, they will choose the morally wrong act) Vaknin argues that narcissists will act with malevolence only if it benefits them, but not if they are harmed.  Does this prove narcissists are not evil? or does it show us they are smarter? or maybe we cannot partition evil into “partly evil” as we cannot be ‘very unique’ or ‘a little pregnant’?

Vaknin addresses this in a question at the crux of this discussion: are the words good and evil, used as opposites, appropriate for describing behavior of a narcissist? Or is there a continuum and we do not have a rich enough diversity of language to describe the moral condition of the narcissist?  It would not be the first time language has acted as barrier to thought.

Scott Peck describes for us the characteristics of the personality disorder that encompasses evil:

    • consistent destructive scapegoating, often subtle
    • excessive, usually covert intolerance to criticism
    • pronounced concern with public image, denial of vengeful motives
    • intellectual deviousness with likelihood of mild schizoid disturbance

Children and Evil

(the child living in the midst of evil) can emotionally survive only by a massive fortification of its psyche. While….essential for survival through childhood, they distort and compromise its life as an adult….Children of evil parents enter adulthood with very significant psychiatric disturbances. To come to terms with evil in one’s parentage is perhaps the most difficult and painful psychological task a human being can be called on to face. Most fail and remain its victims. Those who succeed in developing the necessary searing vision are those who can name it.  “To come to terms” means to “arrive at the name.”

Surviving Evil

Evil then must be named but doing so can be enormously frightening.  It means that some must do battle with a destructive psychological (not supernatural) force.

The ones most in need of help are those that choose or must stay with a narcissist, or those that divorce them.  Divorce a narcissist and you will find every characteristic magnified and enlarged.  Divorce a narcissist with a narcissistic lawyer and you are the victim of a reign of terror.

It does not have to be divorce, it could be any lawsuit or other such campaign. It is the opposition, the challenge to the narcissist’s world view and the need to control that unleashes the campaign to destroy.

There were no examples in Dr. Peck’s book that appeared  to be as evil as what I have seen. I have seen evil that has torn a child from normality, taken the voice of the child so he could not speak and impaled such jolts of evil that the child would awake in terror screaming. “They’re throwing javelins at me, oh, the pain, the pain” and clutch his heart and chest in agony and fall into a coma like sleep for hours.

Evil leaves its mark at the cellular level. There is a physiology to evil. Cells are imprinted at the moment  terror engulfs us.  Brain cells are destroyed by stress and facing evil is neverending stress.  The body never leaves flight or fight mode.  Children silently suffer the slings and arrows of the narcissistic  parent who is unable to care.  What happens to the child is of no concern to the narcissist, he must prevail no matter the cost. The child as collateral damage is unimportant.  Winning is everything.

Can you survive the evil and the abuse?   Yes, though it won’t be easy.  Stay with the narcissist and you may be damaged.  Some can leave and they are changed –  stronger, wounded, wiser,  educated in the techniques of disengaging and mindfulness.  A journey, deep and dangerous  has been made by those who have been companions with “the people of the lie.”

Do you need to talk more about the narcissist in your life? Having trouble with your divorce? Need to reclaim control away from your narcissist?  Visit our page of consultations and books to discover your options.

Ann Bradley


  1. I think evil is a human construct to make an opposite for the idea of good and if you think of scale with good on one end and evil on the other end….it seems the line between good and evil blurs and even more so if you only take parts of a person and add it to the scale. For example, Sally is very giving and shares everything…she is almost all good on the scale, but she is also a very jealous person….she is almost evil on the scale.
    If there is true evil, it would be a rare event. For I believe that humans are neither good or evil, but are on a different level of personal awareness and awareness that the world stretches beyond just themselves. As a young child, they do not understand that there is a world beyond themselves and so they appear very selfish, indifferent and tempermental. We would never call a 4 year old evil because we understand their stage of development and that all children at this age are pretty much the same. Perhaps the narcissistic or evil adult stopped developing at this critical age and never acquired a world beyond themselves. We seem them as evil, but to them they are not trying to be evil. They are instead just acting as they feel entitled to. They have no insight into what they are doing and it would be equally as difficult to make a 4 year old see that they are indifferent and selfish.
    I think in order to be evil, you have to understand what evil is and have a desire or a wish to be evil…..to understand and be cognizant that what you are doing is evil. If you do not have self awareness or insight into your own behaviour and do not feel in anyway you are evil and may even believe you are a victim instead of an abuser, I do not think we can say this person is evil.

    • There is every intention to cause harm. They’re not just unfeeling, callous etc.
      Yes, there is evil in this world and they are. It is not just a failed relationship. You come into contact with the malevolent.

    • So then good is also a human construct?

      So what isn’t a human construct?

      Evil is defined as ‘an intelligent creature, whose selfishness causes harm and a self serving bias, showing no empathy to the target.’

      Sally doesn’t fit that definition.

      Evil is not rare. It is common. VERY common. There are estimated 600000000 cluster B people in the world. Factor in covert aggressives and psychopaths and you have the world as we know it (banking, ISIS, rapes, murders etc etc).

      Regardless of whether a person has arrested development, a grown adult who is autonomous has a DUTY to seek help for their condition. If they don’t, then they are accountable for their actions.
      Now. It is well known that narcs and psychopaths ARE calculating. In other words there is conscious intent to do harm for personal gain. Read back the definition of evil.

      And finally. People are not evil. Actions are.

      • This is probably one of the best, most succinct posts ever on Narcissism and evil… goes with that of Scott Peck. I personally, don’t feel NPD is a pure black/white diagnosis. I believe it’s a spectrum and there are far more narcissists out there than the 1/100. Your post confirms this. Thank you.

        • Peck explains evil within a person in a way that is absolutely chilling. Everyone has some narcissism within them, because we all have an ego. The spectrum is as wide and diverse as human beings themselves. Thank goodness, most people act within “normal” ranges,and we do not have to concern ourselves untill we encounter the pathogical “Outside of the norm” NPD. I am totally convinced the malignant Narc is the end. At this point we are no longer dealing with a human being. They lack the gifts that set us apart from the creatures, and this is empathy. The lack of empathy and compassion makes them very very dangerous, and capable of the most heinous acts. This…is evil.

        • I just squeezed my comment in here. I 100% agree with Dr. Scott Peck. Narcissists are the epitome of evil. They are a “con artist” and put their All into planning their malicious deeds unto others. They are fueled by envy, jealousy, greed, pride, wrath, etc. and they operate in spite constantly feeling the need to dole out punishment and abuse onto their targeted scapegoats. They milk the emotional reaction from their victim and feed off that emotional energy like a blood sucking leach devouring every bit of it and in a sadistic manner and face expression of pure satisfaction. It loves the way of the it refuses truth and self reflection, is so selfish to the degree of the inability to love and empathize like a HUMANE being. It puts itself above reproach, does not care, apologize, feel remorse, and making amends for their wrongs?? NEVER! Stupid move because they won’t even give enough to allow themselves to be cleansed of their sins and allow their own selves the gift of salvation. They come to divide, conquer, steal, destroy and kill. The damned do exist, it is wriitten in the script. They want to be the way that they are. They refuse to consider change. They cross the line from sinner to damned and it not a given that each and every human will want to choose to be good, kind, caring, respectful and human.

          • This is so spot on. They do pass from dinner to damned and they know this and are pleased with it that way. Nothing on earth is more evil than the narcissist. They love who they are and wont stop til they can proudly destroy their victim

      • You are wrong about people are not evil that actions are evil if you want to call a Narc a person or not evil is not just an action and it may not be a human trait but there are evil beings in this world and there are evil being that look like people but because they don’t have the make up of a human like empathy love a concious or emotions this means that they are not human even though they make look human they don’t behave like a human would and don’t qualify to be in the catagory of a human being.

        • And they all follow the same script world wide. I dealt with those in human costumes and saw behind the mask. It’s a hard one to face.

    • This is the result of secularization of society and Freud’s rationalization theories. First, read the definition of evil by St. Augustine. Then come back and we will contine discussing.

      MN are evil for the simple fact that they lack the intention of doing good to others. Like cold is the absence of heat, evil is the absence of good and hatred is the absence of love.

      MN are, by definition, curved in on themselves (incurvatus in se), hence being unable to both receiving and giving love, care and empathy. Society needs to stop confounding wrath/fury with evil.

      And NO, evil is not a human construct. If evil was a human construct, then forgiveness would not exist.

      You sound like a psychopath

    • Only a Narcissists would defend a Narcissists if all of the narcissists have the same traits and evil being the main them then Narcissists are evil there is no way that you can study what a Narcissists is and then come away saying that not all Narcs are evil either you are a Narc or just plain ignorant or both.

    • First of all Sam is an admitted Narcissists so he color things to suit his view and you have to take into account who is giving this information a Narc. So you can trust the Narc to tell you the complete truth. Sam explains in one of his Narc reports that the real self of the Narc is only a observer of the things going on in his life that there is another entity that is making the decensions and calling the shots and that the Narc has disociative disorder. This sounds like the Narc is demonically possessed.

      • That is it exactly. Demonized. Joseph Tyler on YouTube has one of the best videos on this I have ever seen.

    • Well, I guess that many mass-shooters can’t be termed “evil” by your definition. They’re just “misguided.”

      Your set your awareness standard too high. It’s debatable people should rise to the awareness level you posit in order to be considered “evil.” Heck, every genocidal dictator in history though they were serving civilization.

      I’m sorry. I don’t buy it.

  2. I believe both men’s perspective have merit.

    I married twice, both incredible narcissists. (married my mother, really, both times!)

    #1 knew he was the “vainest man in the world.” That name given by his first wife, he used to think it was both funny and true. He isn’t evil so much as selfish, self-centered and controlling. He DID, finally, have an epiphany about how he treated me and why. He really was deeply sorry, but his determined route to self-destruction (and aversion to actually working) sure didn’t bring me back to him, his abuse was physical and verbal. He did know how to apologize and there were times he made attempts to control himself. He failed because he is a weak, angry, self-centered man.

    #2 hub, Well, this quote describes him to a T:” Not so those who are evil. Theirs is a brand of narcissism so total that they seem to lack this capacity for empathy…. We can see then, that their narcissism makes the evil dangerous not only because it motivates them to scapegoat others, but also because it deprives them of the restraint that results from empathy and respect for others….The evil need victims to sacrifice to their narcissism, their narcissism permits them to ignore the humanity of their victims as well. ..The blindness of the narcissist to others can extend beyond a lack of empathy; narcissists may not “see” others at all. ” #2 is truly, unrelenting, and viciously evil. ZREO empathy…altho he had a scare with bladder cancer early in our marriage (none found) when I was found with a mass in my uterus, and both symptoms and a sonogram indicated (possibly stage 4) uterine cancer, his explosive reaction was, “Yer making too much of this, I am NOT giving up my (annual, 3 week) vacation for a scrape, and if you have cancer, there’s not a damned thing I can do about it anyway.”

    #2 only sees people who can advance him, mostly financially, but boost his ego, as well. He has used our two children unmercifully, as well, of course me. He juggles 3 women at a time (not including his wives/steady)but can tell the most outrageous lies to each, and about each. Emotionally abusive, emotionally manipulative, and without real emotion (other than rage) he is a superb actor, being able to go from brave undercover agent to tears to the police (who I had to call to get into my own home!) for “finding her, omigod, everyone has been so worried! You have to stop disappearing like this, Baby, I was called in from the field, I was conducting a covert operation, for the Department of Homeland Security, the neighbors hadn’t seen her for months, they thought the place was abandoned, because of this crazy woman who I love, but I love my country more, I had to divorce her!” to self effacing and downplaying his enormous contribution to the National Security of our beloved country, wiping another tear from his eye “started working for the Feds when I was in ‘Nam, Special Forces, can’t tell you what I did or do now, either. Wouldn’t, if I could, still have nightmares,” to a concerned homeowner, “Look, officers, I have renters coming in in two days, let’s get this situation under control, shall we?” All this within 4 minutes….

    for the record…he never was in Special Forces, ‘Nam, nor did he divorce me, I did him and boy is he still angry about it. Still claims he’s married, works under cover with the CIA, and his poor beknighted chicks, who think they are going out with a short, fat James Bond married to a crazy woman who “has never known what I do for a living, her craziness would jeopardize our national Security. My job is my cover, my cell phone is classified, I can call you, but you must NEVER call me” still, after being apart for 9 years and divorced for 3, track me down, and demand I let him go…His lovely, truly a nice person, 4 year relationship steady, (who does know what he does) quite well off, is being heavily pressured to buy him a house, far away from all her family and friends….just like he did with me…

    Our Second child made a serious attempt at suicide, and his enraged phone call to me, “I can’t afford this bill, stupid bitch can’t do anything right, not even commit suicide right.” First Child (both are in their early 20’s), is a marvelous, but still neurotic, Daddy Issues, success, within the pro sports field. He has never forgiven his (wonderful! terrific woman) daughter from his first marriage for never dating and marrying a well known sports figure from their upper MidWest hometown, he’s figgering our daughter is gonna make him famous! (I already made him rich, and because he’s a narcissist, he’s purty well blown thru the money in 3 years). He blames me and our #2 daughter for #2 not being a PERFECT SON. She was his last chance for a PERFECT SON (his only son is a very high functioning, independent asperger’s) and she and I blew it.

    He blames his short stature for never having been a success in anything (despite his claim to me he was a wonderful success in radio “but my wife took all my money.”)

    However, at the ripe old age of 70, (and several cosmetic surgeries) he has found a modicum of success with his acting abilities…he works as a spokesperson, part time, for a Federal agency. As one daughter said to me, “He shoulda done this 30 years ago, Mama, he’s the total center of attention, gets to travel, be on tv and radio, and get paid for acting sincere, about stuff he really doesn’t give a crap.”

    “Vaknin argues that narcissists will act with malevolence only if it benefits them and not harms them.” #2 hub acted/acts malevolently to me, in creepy, and stalker ways, and he has crossed lines that now, with strength that I’ve had to muster, shall harm him. But he’s such a narcissist, he doesn’t believe I can act on protecting myself at all, that the police are so conned, I won’t win.

    It takes tremendous strength to finally fight back, and one cannot while living with one, evil, or not. Therapists, especially female therapists, are useless with dealing with a male, emotional abuser, narcissist, the acting abilities of one are so tremendous, and feed the therapists ego, especially if the narcissist can muster tears and snot running down the face and chin!

    Both Peck and Vankin are correct, but whether a narcissist is evil or just an emotionally stunted person, depends on the individual and how he affects those closest to him, and how he chooses friends, and how fast he makes enemies(even only in his own head). And whether he is caught and called out, or not…..by their fruits, you shall know them.

    • “You are wrong”? Woah, overload, overload! That is quite an extensive and compelling argument. Care to elaborate on that masterful piece of ÜBER knowledgable writing? Pretty please, Holly Carol? You’ve left me intrigued and wanting for more, more, more!

      BTW: I think, in all sincerity (not a hint of jocular sarcasm), that Lucy’s writing provided a fair and knowledge/experience based reply to the differences in thought of Peck and Vaknin. Giving you particular insight is that Peck is a non-narci, Vaknin a narci (Lucy & her former husband respectively). Lucy is more than qualified to comment on the subject. And Lucy has me thinking about evil vs. emotionally stunted based on the impact the narcissists behavior has on the kind of impact their behavior has people in their lives.

      Also, I find that reading and replying to essays, commemts, excerpts, articles etc. regarding narcissism, sociopathy, borderline personally disorder, abuse, trauma bonding etc.. Serve not only as a means to think through the subjects, but to reflect on my own life and, human behavior, and to delve DEEPER into the subjects (both the persons and topics). It can be quite cathartic. And, of course educational. I find, too, that people’s shared experiences are invaluable. Affecting both my mind and my heart.

  3. Evil has a feel to it, an aura. When I’m in its presence, I experience anomie, mild disorientation, and creepiness. Malignant narcissists are evil. Yes, they are. They like to terrorize others, and break every rule in the world. They think they are gods. Of course, since none of us are gods, it’s easy to get very insecure when we come up against proof we’re not perfect. Uh-oh! The narcissist will swing into action to demean and denigrate any threat to their false sense of entitlement. Pride comes before the Fall-ie. Lucifer, a proud creature.
    They are amoral. Mentally, they know when they are doing wrong. Emotionally, they couldn’t care less. Indifference is the opposite of Love, not Hate, as many think. A possibility is that they are so darn evil that the Love they feel comes out upside down, as Hate. Only someone who really touches us can arouse the passion of Hate. Now, maybe
    some con artist comes along who destroys aspects of our lives and families, so that arouses Hatred. Anyone, incl. MN’s can feel hate because of this. In addition, being as the MN is pure evil, they could experience an admirable, talented, superior person who others would admire and like, with Hatred, because that person threatens their sense of being the god of their environment. Precisely because they like the person so much, they realize that person’s threat to King or Queen of the Mountain, and of course, we know what will happen to that person, don’t we?

  4. The true definition of evil in relation to people hurting people is this: To do harm to another human being on a grand scale.

    Not all narcissists are evil and not all narcissists do harm on a grand scale (although this could be debated).

    As the grandest victim of narcissists you will ever find I do not think narcisssits are evil in character-although an argument could be made that all those who are evil of character have highly narcissistic traits.

    Narcissists however are completely devoid of character and by this I mean maturity and consciousness and therefore conscience of matter. To narcissists most of the time their outside is their inside,they are shallow because they are protecting their inner emptiness and lack of character that is threatened by anyone with character.

    I see narcissists as human tornadoes-empty inside and if you get in their way they will hurt or destroy you and there is no reasoning with them because they are simple forces of nature created by “hot air” (human capability for ego and arrogance,which can protect weakness,fear,and vulnerability) and pressure (they feel pressure to conform in order to feel secure and fit in. They are like children who don’t know themselves, have never been secure and don’t know how to grow up because they are living in a world pretending to be adults and the world rewards them. They think when they pretend to be something they are not. They are not “adults” – people who can treat others with respect – -because they are so busy taking care of the image they created in order to feel better and feel less anxiety and depression by gaining people’s attention and love. No one tells them they can’t do that and doing such things is the only way they can live in denial of their fear and emptiness. Ironically they feel they are evil-they feel within them bad about themselves,because they don’t know how to be a “responsible” human which is one who is in control of THEMSELVES (not their superficial “selves” that makes money,supports themselves,and lives up to societies expectations and/or desires but their INNER SELVES who FEEL and then act or don’t act based on some moral understanding—the narcissist acts to remain in denial and use other’s attention to boost their low self esteem and inferiority complex (and their inherent paranoia because to them everyone IS after them and this is their reality so they act based on paranoia and fear instead of trust as a normal person would).

    Once they take you into their vortex of emptiness by convincing you that they are something they are not (mostly by MIRRORING your love and acceptance of them ON THE SURFACE until you actually need them to act as they pretend to be) you in essence become NO THING because you are really just a THING they use to reflect off of in order to gain you as a person (not your love,but your attention and willingness to be USED by them through their control in order to give them attention whenever they want—the LOVE you give them isn’t even what they want which is why they never seem afraid of losing it or ever return it in the same true way that you give it–they just want your attention and to MOLD you into a thing that they can use to maintain their false image of themselves as some THING that is ACCEPTED and AGGRANDIZED (given power and love) by others–they use you for the power you give them by accepting them,loving them,and giving them attention and opportunity to control and use you. They love you for being a thing,which is just what they are–but the love can never be equal or even returned to you because in order for them to use you as a thing to maintain the IMAGE of what they are they must always be the one in control and they must always keep you not only as a thing but as a thing with NOTHING or NO THING of value because they need to have all the value in their minds. Because as empty things of illusion with no actual human value and instead just illusion they only take in order to take more and they only love or give in order to gain control which they can use to destroy you if needed whenever necessary–even though ironically unbeknownst to them they have already destroyed you the minute you believed the illusion of their character because everything after that was a lie used to keep you and to keep you from being YOU and keep you from being FREE. In essence they murder you the moment they set eyes on you and then they just desire to keep your hollow dead body around to use and minipulate for their own use and entertainment (NOT your true value) in order to make THEIR ILLUSION of themselves “REAL” in their paranoid, twisted, and delusional minds.
    What needs to happen is their delusions need to be SHATTERED but because these delusions are inside them and they do everything to keep these delusions active–because their delusions ARE their character and “humanity” (sic) in their minds–simply using FORCE against them alone will not work and will not “cure” them. What they need is to be forced to face themselves and to take responsibility but they also need support ONCE their true characterless self comes out (I’m not sure there is a cure,barring their own pain from being abandoned causing them to feel pain and then over time if they were to bravely explore themselves and be willing to suffer as the human they really are they might gain the experience to self emulate and take responsibility for their own feelings and thus begin to have morals–but my belief is that NO ONE-and especially one who is actively being used by the narcissist which would be anyone that trusts them or is in a real relationship with them,could ever cure them. Because the only reason they are in a relationship with anyone is to maintain their ADDICTION to their false self which convers up their empty and worthless real self. The only way you can help a narcissist is to recognize what they truly are (not who,because they are not a who but a what)–you can have empathy for them but allowng them to hurt you means another day that they will believe they are some thing thatthey are not and they will go on convering up their true selves. No one can fall in love with a narcissist,you can only fall in love with the false image they present to you ,through mirroring your responsible love but never delivering any of that love back to you WHEN you need it and when YOU need to be in control of YOU or of other things (not people,though in a REAL relationship even among children people give up some control over themselves but the narcissist gives up none that is IMPORTANT to him which is why he or she GROUSES about everything silently or loudly because everything is HIS or HERS in their mind including YOU the THING they won in their minds (they can’t see you as a human being,they don’t consciously think of you as a thing but they are things of ther own creation so you are as well and can be nothing else ever——until and unless they recognize their own emptyness and lack of character and morality and work to become something of THEIR OWN character and then apologize to you profusely FOR being themselves and all the things they have done specifically and non specifically—you probably know they narcissits hate to apologize and really never see anything wrong with their behavior and THIS is why–because they don’t see what they LACK a true character filled with humanity and morality. All characters that are empty are criminal in nature as they all USE the superficial world in order to build a false character with which they control and gain from the world.

    Some narcissists are evil due to the choices they make in relation to other people. The irony is that it’s mostly a matter of circumstance that end up deciding or determining whether a narcissist is evil. That is if the world and the situations the narcissist comes across and places themselves in (and the people) turn out the way the narcissist wants or don’t dissapoint the narcissist and keep giving them the attention the narcissist wants (not needs in a truly human sense as the narcissist wants attention in order to keep being NOT human and to remain being a consuming and empty characterless thing)–i.e. are able to be manipulated by the narcissist to their satisfaction (which IS impossible to a “perfect degree” as what they want is to TAKE from GIVING people without of course being able to give anything REAL and of value that is not an illusion and therefore a LIE) –THEN the narcissist will not “hurt” by NEGLECTING of your humanity (which the narcissist can’t help and isn’t even conscious of most of the time as THEIR morality is just an act and when you NEED them to be moral and give YOU attention they literally CAN’T because unbeknownst to even them to a large degree their whole personality and person is an ACT–and simply a series of manipulations of and lies to others and of situations in order to maintain the delusional image of themselves and to stay addicted to others “love” which to their EMPTY hearts and minds-character-is ONLY ATTENTION (why “stalkers” want your attention more than your love,because to them and all narcissists attention is love because love requires TWO people and for BOTH to have character).

    • 3 basic things that are common to the *truly* narcissistic:
      1) They never do any work. Really. They are lazy as all hell.
      2) They are deeply, deeply unhappy. There is no point worrying about whether or not they are happy, because they never are. They refuse to be cheered up.
      3) They creep one out!!!!! with their obsessional behaviours. My mum never used to call me from 1 month to the next and all of a sudden she is trying to creep back into my good books again because she p*ssed my aunt off. Apparently my mother sees my cousin as the golden child – she has no interest in my work at all. Though to some degree my aunt and mum are as bad as each other I have a feeling my aunt thought my mum’s attitude towards me, and this obsession with my cousin, and also this feeding off the problems my aunt had, rather weird, and must have become thoughtful. My mother is still trying to play games with her and has experienced scant reaction for the past month. My mother was also excluded from a social gathering in the neighbourhood – although mind you the two old trouts responsible for it were just as bad – but again she was desperately playing games trying to get a reaction from them, whereas if you were a healthy narcissist, you wouldn’t care. She loves trying to save face and pretend she is nice and make some noise for the sake of it, but people grow tired of someone who’s only ever around in order to get attention for nothing in particular.
      Now she is trying to work on me again but in the interim I have changed. I no longer give a sh*t about what anybody else thinks. I haven’t the time for starters, and when she comes out with something negative I reply with something positive, or when she comes out with something stupid, I come out with something sensible. In fact, there’s a type of person that is so self confident and grounded and sensible that the narcissist knows they’ll have a hard time playing games with them, because this sensible person won’t have the time to play along, or the time of day to give them. That leaves them feeling really, really stuck.

    • Insightful and compassionate writing. I also believe that the only chance for change is in there being a total acknowledgement of themselves and that’s pretty ironic given that it’s usually considered to be too much consideration of self and not enough thinking of others! But when people understand that Narcissus was in love with his image not himself it provides a clue… I think your narcissist/s missed out on all the beautiful gifts that you have and on the transformation that would have occurred if only they weren’t such cowardly creatures…. (IMHO). It is their loss.

      • Narcissists will never change because they don’t feel there is anything wrong with them to change for. They like being who and what they are. These people that are trying to say that not all narcissists are evil. I say try living and dealing with some and then come back and say that they are not. The simple fact that the Narc choose to do wrong over good tell how evil they are and if they do some good it is not for the other person or the sake of doing good is for there own selfish gain.

    • “Me” you nailed it. Absolutely described how nothing sucked me in and showed me that I was no thing too until my soul fought for it’s very survival and I went no contact. He still wants to suck me back into his deep pit of nothingness.

  5. The solution if you are a victim of a narcissist is to understand what they are and to build your own character and strength by protecting yourself from being hurt in whatever way possible. Unfortunately the narcissist may have and probably has gotten you ADDICTED to his attention and lies (just like he is addicted to YOUR attention and his own lies) by turning you into a “thing” that denies your own feelings in favor of his (because he denies your feelings,since he can’t feel them as his “self” is an image and to be pathologically focused on himself or really on creating his own image—-hence the obsessive need to control and manipulate others and everything else as an image cannot be believed especially by him,if everything around him doesn’t fit into the lies,stories,and the image he sees and wants to see). He or she creates an addict in you by the denial of your feelings and the projection ONTO you of the IMAGE of you that THEY want which is an image of EMPTYNESS and of you NOT EXISTING because they need and want you to be the projected image that they create in their minds at the SAME TIME that they want you to be the THING that they “fell in love with” or “care about” (want to use to give them attention). And it is this destruction of you and at the same time this DEMAND that you be what they want to see in their minds,which drives you crazy and makes you give IN to them because at least then you will have ATTENTION—this is how they were created by a superficial society and seperate and superficial family and the lack of freedom of themselves that they suffered as children. Cruelty and rewards,in the hands of the irresponsible or the insane (those without moral understanding or consciousness of their own person or character)–creates narcissists who are paranoid and pathologically fear being nothing–thus they fit in society very well at least on a superficial level,but really these are children who were not raised and not allowed to grow up because they were neglected,controlled,and spoiled all at the same time. Society individually and as a group needs to focus on being PERSONALLY conscious and responsible,and on respecting all people big and small which can only come from exploring OURSELVES instead of the EMPTY superficial world which is seperated from ourselves. The end of religion is what has made this problem come to be so large. But religion was always a system of power and superstition made up of people just like all other parts of society. We need to create ourselves and to create a society of human values which we all are capable of seperately and together. We all need freedom instead of being addicted to comfortable superstitions of religious POWER or personal POWER. Truth is not in power,it is in acceptance and responsibility.

    • Me, I appreciate your comments in your previous post. My mother created her own insular world and played goddess in it for over fifty years. Her main social contacts are her several children. She never had girlfriends. She wouldn’t be caught dead in the regular company of other females. She never dated after she divorced my father. She says had to make her own interesting people. Meaning her kids. She trained us to serve her needs. She crushed her scapegoats and elevated those who please her.

      She hated religion. In my late teens I picked up a Bible and read to judge not lest you be judged. The words “judge not” changed me. All I had ever known was her absolute power to punish and reward us. So when I read “judge not” it totally rocked my world. My whole life, I had listened to her talk down those she didn’t like. Including me. I didn’t want to be like that. The words “judge not” went against everything she enjoyed. Here were words telling me there was another standard of living. After that I questioned her system. I began to survive instead of just existing. And paid a huge price for my independence.

      The abuse of power in the name of God is a horrible thing. It can be used to beat others into submission or coerce them to give up their money to overly wealthy tv personalities, etc… That’s not good! But the personal faith a person finds can be of great benefit to them. I think that is worth mentioning.

  6. Evil is well defined by the lack of empathy even when confronted with the outcome of the action. …know not what they do… until they know and don’t have the capacity/desire to care or change. In Christianity its called denying the Holy Spirit. Denying the opportunity for improvement, change, salvation, what have you… If you don’t stay narcissistic, then you are not a narcissist and you therefore cannot be evil as defined. Narcissism and deep psychopathic/hedonistic/sociopathic tendencies are not exclusive. They enjoy each others company quite often. I was raised by one, so I speak from the well worn corners of my soul. Thank God I have a good wife and wonderful Grandparent who embedded what I needed to survive the damage, although with a life that admittedly has been stunted by my late to develop sense of self-worth.

    • Doug,
      I am still the target of an evil narcissistic father at 42. I am very successful and refuse to communicate with him in any form or fashion. He has contacted my employer and writes crazy letters. I never respond. He doesn’t work and lives to try an destroy me. My refusal to give him narcissistic supply enrages him. He really is a sick human being. I truly believe on a miracle from God can save his soul. Great job surviving a childhood with your narcissistic parent. That, in itself, proves you are a man of strength.

  7. My mother is a full blown narcissist and you will never be able to convince me they are not evil. When I was attacked and raped at 14 her response to me was it happens get over it.

    She has no heart unless it is to pretend for another one of her lies or scams. They are unable to see the child as an individual and the mental, emotional and sometimes physical abuse trashes your life while your young and trying to build one. They put you in unsafe situations and then blame you if something happens. Nothing they say can ever be believed. They blame you or others for everything never taking responsibility for their behavior. As soon as you get two steps ahead they sabotage you until you have to start over. Personally I don’t care if it is done on purpose or not. If it harms others enough to alter their lives it is evil.

    • well said! my mom was a narcissist too. i love how you just cut straight to the heart of their habits and to the heart of how ultimately narcissists it’s not worth the bother understanding them, just recognize the situation for what it is and get the hell out. i guess i don’t have anything to say, other than for all i’ve read on the subject your entry was such a great cliff note to the whole experience, the bravery to just say it simply and directly was appreciated 🙂

    • My mother to a ‘T’ here. She was raging at me when I was 13 for well over a week. It erupted and apparently she saw me ‘making eyes’ at a man I never saw in the town. I had to ask what ‘making eyes’ meant as I didn’t know this term. She said “You know exactly what I mean, I saw him look at you”.

      I left home a.s.a.p of course, I was 15 and ran off. Later in my life I was divorcing an abusive husband and she said ‘you’ve made your bed you should lie in it’. Again the jealousy extended to my children, aged 12 my daughter stated ‘why is grandma so greedy and judgmental, I don’t really like her. Now she wonders why they don’t visit, well it’s because you failed to even once visit them as children and when they saw you they were compared with the other grandchildren in a negative way.

      Still in her 70’s she undermines my confidence, copies any idea I might have then claims it as her own, she hates me having any object of furniture which upstages her furniture, she alleges I put on a sweet little voice, it’s just my voice in fact, she demands I don’t have nice clothes so I dress right down when I visit. She produced 3 codepent types, and 2 narcissistic bully boys, she admires them for being pushy, greedy and generally like herself.

      The games never stop, avoid these people, I’ve been in relationships myself with 2 men of this ilk and the rage is not human, not rational and they will destroy who you are, both of these men focussed heavily on my looks, both wanted to dress me, both wanted painted nails, skin tight dresses and neither of them wanted me to have an opinion.
      The thing I’ve reflected on is that none of the 3 narcs in my life had any sense of humour, literally none. They laugh at people, can be loud and sociable, but all fail to understand metaphor, irony or self deprecation. Does the narcissist understand how humour is how authentic people express emotion or put a healthy spin of bad stuff.
      Avoid avoid avoid and grey rock them if you have to stay in touch. It’s what works for me.

  8. It is very, very interesting to read your comments, those of you who post here. I only wish you gave more details about how being “trapped” with a narcissist affected you, and/or how you recovered from its effects. Thanks!

  9. Narcissists ARE evil. It’s not a question of debate. Any expert who doesn’t see this clearly is not an expert. Sam Vaknin is downright wrong on not just this, but on other things about Ns.

    Narcissists are PSYCHOPATHS. These are synonyms, and I don’t care about what you read on wikipedia or on most blogs. They are psychopaths, and they are the worst kind of psychopaths.

    Also, it is a MYTH that Narcissists need confirmation or anything like that. Narcissism has nothing to do with pride, or ego. They don’t have an ego, they are NOT selfish, the only thing they want is the other person to suffer. They are not human beings, you’ll see that once you understand what Narcissistic Supply is and how they operate in their head.

  10. Fearless you are correct.

    A Malignant Narc damn near destroyed me. He got off on torturing me … mind games and physical abuse. He was a pathological liar! He lured me into his trap by faking a persona then BOOM!!

    Recovery has been slow I was in such severe shock … it took time to figure out what I had been involved with. I know for a fact he is aware of what he is and he chooses to be that way. Sick, twisted monster … showed no remorse and has no conscience. I will not go into detail but MY GOD it was hell on earth for me. He sold me a dream and then ruined my life!

    He had the flat affect …. no facial expressions at all … never saw him smile or laugh. A seriously scary zombie like man with a gross smirk and a predatory stare!

    They are very dangerous …. never override your instincts (I did this as I was going through a massive life change and therefore vulnerable) these creatures will sniff you out so be aware! I just knew something was off about this guy.

    Turns out he was a bona fide Psycho a Malignant Narc …the same thing IMO.
    If you encounter one …JUST RUN THE HELL AWAY!!!

  11. Of course Sam Vaknin denies the obvious (that narcs are evil), since he admits to being a narcissist, he would then be forced to admit the truth, which is that he is evil. Narcs hate the whole truth. They use truth mixed with lies to give themselves credibility.

  12. Kudos to Sam Vaknin for exploring his favorite subject, himself. There is a great deal to learn from Dr. Vaknin. Because he himself is not his favorite subject. We have no empirical data to prove or disprove that his favorite subject is whatever it need be to support his hidden agenda. The brilliance to capitalize on the current public hysteria to identify a narcissist, so he may afford to pursue his Ph D.
    What does it matter to parse ego, personality, good, evil, anger and empathy? The ability to parse out such universal dualism is a fundamental narcissistic coping mechanism known as “‘splitting”.
    The narcissist cannot be trusted. He cannot synthesize the fact that good and evil exist in one person.

  13. To conclude, the narcissist is a master of self-design. The lessons here include dialectical reason and moral ambiguity.

  14. Malignant narcissists have an awareness of right and wrong by their many efforts to conceal their bad deeds. Narcissists have an over-active mindset of ill will, evil intent, malevolence toward others because of the pervasive pattern of their concealing behaviors. That’s why they all wear a mask. Do not waste your life believing the narcissist has good intentions or that “not all narcissists are bad.” To the contrary: narcs are intent on having it ALL…which consistently translates into evil outcomes for you. Even if you happen to be one of their mindless minions or dupes, you will eventually fall into the narcissist’s ditch. Statement of fact: the narcissist is EVIL. They are not poor souls who are always intending good only to have the outcome consistently end up bad for others. No, Their intent is pure malignant. Evil. They know what is good and right and choose to do the opposite. Not only that but they get HIGH off hurting others and doing wrong. Only when their behavior is liable to reflect poorly on them in public or group situations (they are also cowards) will they appear to do a good thing. But the intentions underneath are always all about them getting it all, not just materially but psychologically and spiritually speaking.. In the dark with their vulnerable victims they reveal the truth of who they really are….evil incarnate. If you’ve been in the dark with one of these creatures of the night then you know I have stated the truth about their evil characters.
    Deny this truth at your own risk.

  15. I agree with above. I am overly trusting and gave my narc a few opportunities. He gave me nothing but psychological pain. When he suffered a family death he was very keen to be out in public, the focus of sympathy. He did not cry at all, boasted about his moving speech at the funeral ? Ie. His contrived speech designed to appeal to his fan base of mourners. Once he stated he was very spiritual but liked to keep it private. Strange as he never kept his immense humanity personal, he loved adding to the charity box in public. I actually feel he deserves his empty soul even though several women and children pay the price for it.

  16. As I type this I am in my bedroom, door locked. I have been under full attack by my covert malignant narc “husband” He is pure evil. I wish I could post a picture, one look at his face and I would not have to explain further. As he has aged his mean evil face has become his permanent expression.. Slits for eyes (like a snake” heavy brow (like frankenstein)…. mouth, either a smirk (if he is teasing,
    annoying) if not a frown.
    He has made my life a living hell. I am the scapegoat, even my own children have turned against “crazy” mom. He provokes me, undermines me, sets me up, causes drama in my life, breaks my things (never on purpose) hides my phone,
    keys. The worst comes out when I am sick. Which because of all the stress he heeps on me I am sicker than ever. This week, my autoimmune disease was the worst, body pains, on top of that worst case of poison ivy. He makes a point need to come near me, will gie me a cup of coffee, and then remind me of it. He barks, “DO YOU NEEED ANYTHING!!!!!” so nasty, I cry as I’m in so much pain. Then he turns it around, this is classic, “DON’T take it out of me because your sick.” Meanwhile while I’m bedridden, he went to the store to buy new running she’s, worked on his outdoor project, then mother two hours at the store….
    Meanwhile if he gets a splinter it’s the end ofd the world.
    Last night I did what all the experts on malignant narcissists tell you not to do. I told him I hated the sight of it. That he was sick. On and On I couldn’t stop.
    He looked at me with that death stare, his eyes were saying “Ok now I’m going to get you.
    It has grown increasingly scary here. Huge beam almost fell on me outside (His fireplace project., from 20 feet up. Comes crashing down It would have killed me. He is so careful with everything, not this time. When I told him he didn’t say “OMG..or I’m sorry… Just, why did you wait this long to tell me? smirk….
    So here I am door locked. I have 4 children, two out on there on Two home. My son, is one of his minions..gets a approving glance when he’s nasty to me. He threw my medicine at me in bed when I ASKED FOR IT. Then I overhear him downstairs. “How are you feeling Dad, better?” My daughter is a sweet heart she comes in to check on me, asks do I need anything. I cry and hold her. I don’t want her to leave me. I am so scared. I have no family and friends are long gone (All were no good according to him)
    I am so beaten down. I have no strength to even get out of this bed. Eating is a chore. I feel like I am willing myself to die. I am nothing of what I was before I met him. I was out going, he could barely speak..I felt sorry for him……I wish I could go back in time and save myself. God help me. I want to die but I am a Christian and it is a mortal sin so I must go on. Pray for me.

    • Oh, Helen I’m so sorry. I’m crying as I’m writing this. Yes I will pray for you.

    • Helen- i hope and pray that things for you have moved on and improved, start telling people you can trust, this is a dreadful situation and I pray that you can get away from this as soon as possible.

    • Helen, You must be 100% focused on getting out. I mean it. You pray to God for strength and get out.

  17. As I am writing this, I am in separation from my parents. I just turned 42 and my mom has been verbally/emotionally abusing me my entire life. I believe she is a narcissist. My dad did nothing to protect me as a child. He didn’t want his marriage to break, even though I cannot say their marriage means much of anything substantial. My brother and sister were somewhat “on board” with my mom’s evil. I was a sensitive, empathetic, free-spirit as a child, so I was the target. Long-term abuse can warp a person. I am not the person I am suppose to be. I am intelligent, kind, and pretty….even though my mom never imparted that with me. I have been so confused over the years….especially as an adult. There is a part of you that knows you are suppose to be someone else, but you cannot seem to get there or become that person. One of the worst things a parent can do is to cripple their child from becoming the person he or she is destine to become. Over the years, I received scholarships and awards and degrees, but this was never enough for my parents. I have been knocking myself out over the years to do enough for my parents. After my suicide attempt, it happened one day that I no longer cared for approval from my parents. I never blamed my parents for the suicide. And this attempt was no cry for help. I unloaded a hollow point 38 caliber into my chest. My mom will never change because she is unwilling to self-reflect. She never gave me a voice, validated my feelings, or allowed me to fly. I have finally severed the umbilical cord. The work is not over….I have days with flash backs that cripple and depress me. If you are in any situation in which someone is controlling or manipulating you, know that you have the keys with you. Control can make you feel hopeless, confused, and in the dark. Surround yourself with positive people. There is help out there and you are not alone. You will most likely lay blame with yourself and constantly question the reality of a situation like this, because I do. Hold Fast in Christ and know that this is YOUR day. Move forward with your life. And most importantly, get away from people that will continue to thwart your efforts.

  18. Helen, I am praying for you. You need a support system. Surround yourself with positive people.

  19. Narcissist aren’t evil. They trying to defend their false self which they depend on. They are not doing this to hurt others it is only a side effect of their disorder. They themselves repress their bad side.

  20. I will turn 40 years old next year in february – and I am dead!
    Can you imagine I never was out dancing, I never had a car, I even never had a disturbed self – I always knew what was going on since I loved reading-it was the only thing I was allowed.

    I very well understood that my mother was sick and I am very much okay.
    I was always very funny and full of good mood, hoping the next day would have been my day of leaving the house of my mother….in case one nice Person would believe me.

    Unfortunalely never did someone believe me. My mother had made my prison fool-proof.
    She started to change my life in wrong direction when I didn´t even realized she hated me.

    It´so simple to ruin your familiy in Germany.

    You go to the School national Office -crying a Little bit telling about the bad beahviour the child has and than the child gets a remark it will never recover from.
    Psycho !
    I wansn´t allowed to study neither to learn a Job in an academie.
    But I had good A´s only !
    And one day suddenly out of nothing I was already 35 years of Age-I had to make interviews with the Police.
    Their Intention was to bring me to the psychiatric ward.The reason?
    Mother had told them I would try to kill myself-and I seemed to be a psycho since childhood my file said they told me !
    Coldly and very shocked inside I replied that i never was sick-that I never saw a judge or a doctor – and I will never ever kill myself-clear ! Get that !
    Well,they tried it on and on -one time trying to trap me during sleep.
    I phoned for help and my best friend saved me.
    Hard escape.
    The reason for all that my mother !
    She even did waterboarding with me.
    And I am her Mick Jagger-she is phoning with her friends and the only theme they have is me !
    Oh Kiki is so wild and you are so a good mother -you goddess !
    Oh you poor woman -your daughter is beating you oh and you are such an angel-the way you manage to handle a sich child and go to work !
    You are sooooo seldom so fine and your daughter is so bad and….

    If the peolpe would make up their mind and really listen they would see how silly the phone calls are.
    I always was thinking a man should come and beat them right into the face-because it does noone any good to Play the dying swan !

    oh,I remember-one day my mother sat in Hospital with her golden child my sister.
    And they behaved so very stupid and silly-that one doctor lost his temper and shouted angriliy:What are you both doing ! Playing the dying swan !
    Don´t do that -ist absurd !

    My mother is very very stupid. She cannot even cook. But she is a clever beast in making plans to destroay all my plans and jobs and dreams.

    She is a Monster.

    • A clever beast is a fantastic way to describe her. You have survived much – if I had a Badge of Honor for surviving what she did to you, you would have it. I think you are stronger and wiser than you know. Go down that path – of YOUR strength and YOUR wisdom and find the life you earned. We are your support team, invisible, but knowing you can do it. Applauding you. Best, Ann

    • Monster is a good word. I cannot believe anyone is defending narcissistic abuse by saying the perpetrators of it are not evil and do not have evil intent!!!

    • Thank you for writing, and my heart goes out for you, Christianne, this day when I stumbled upon this web page (admittedly years after you had posted).

      Sounds to me that your Beast/Monster mother has Munchausen’s Disorder By Proxy, also known as Factitious Disorder Imposed Upon Another/Others.

      Specifically, a variation of Munchausen’s/Factitious in which the parent forces the progeny into a life of being psychiatrically Branded. The psychiatric-variant of Munchausen Parent is probably the most difficult to notice, probably because the psychiatric-variant Munchausen-types such as Michael Schofield or Munchausen-Parent-Enabler named D.J Jaffe are seen as somehow more “normal” than the more standard-Munchausen types such as DeeDee Blanchard. But Munchausen Parents are all the same, and they are all extremely destructive.

      Munchausen Parents can be male OR female, although Munchausen Mothers seem to be more often caught or noticed than Munchausen Fathers.

      I hope that Germany re-write its laws so that a Munchausen Parent can no longer play their evil game.

      I also wonder if Munchausen’s By Proxy (Factitious Disorder Imposed Upon Another) might be a variation of Malignant Narcissism.

      I feel sorry that society still has laws that benefit Munchausen Parents, such as that Monstrous mother who Branded her daughter a psycho — and those laws need to be changed, the Munchausen Parents brought to justice, and that society pay all the victims of Munchausen Parents both generous apologies and restitution for damage done to people when the cops and doctors foolishly side with the Munchausen Parent.

      I wish you well, and that God should at least be righteous enough to shower (both) you (and all other victims of Munchausen Parents, also) with the blessings of restoration, healing, and a more abundant life than what you have had so far. You have my heart, so please hang in there.

      — Loretta

      • This is a really interesting observation, and I am glad you mention it. My Nmother always told me I was crazy, but her pride prevented her from taking me to a psychiatrist, for fear my “craziness” would reflect poorly on her. Maybe that’s the biggest difference between Munchausen and NPD, although she took me to the doctor a lot. I now realize those visits were theater to her, as she would turn on a dime as soon as the doctor entered the exam room, dripping with her faux concern and pity. While I had chronic ear infections, I often wonder if they were caused by growing up in a house with several heavy smokers. Even after a doctor told her to stop smoking around me, she nodded at him and said okay and then proceeded to light up in the car on the ride home. When I objected, she huffed that he didn’t know what he was talking about. I think it’s actually against the law now in my state for adults to smoke in a vehicle with children, but anyway. So many horror stories, so little time.

  21. Does anyone have the experience that the mother smiles while making you cry?

    When I was begging for my life in several cases my mother looked intensively into my eyes and her mouth could hardly hide a smile.

    One time she started laughing aloud – the only time in my life I saw her laughing. It was terrifying.

  22. To Helen – I know you posted a year ago, but I pray to God that He eases your burdens and pain. I can’t offer you too much comfort, except that I understand. That is what brought me to this site today, I am consumed in my own miserable situation right now – that sounds quite a bit like yours. I desperately need to figure out what to do, as I am not sure how the least amount of damage will be done.

    I am 35 and have been married to my narc husband for 7 years now. We have 2 precious preschool aged boys together, and they are the reason I am still with my husband today (I don’t want to devastate my kids by tearing the family apart). I have had a lot of “worst days of my life, in these 7 years of marriage”.

    People speak of the evil look narcissists have…and its true with my husband. He used to have big, kind looking eyes (except when he would rage), and now they are permanently sunk-in, an dull, and he has a very mean look to him. When he rages, his eyes glaze over and darken, and they literally look like they are going to bulge out of his head. He looks possessed, and acts like it too, as there is absolutely no calming him down in any way during that time. Its terrifying. As my husband is also physically abusive, I’ve started paying less attention to shielding myself and have been observing his face and actions after he is violent and hurts me, and I noticed that he has a very satisfied look after he hits me….it is hard to describe, but he just looks like he did something good, that I got what I deserved. He NEVER apologizes (not immediately or even later)…and in fact, he considers himself a victim of me. Saying that I do much worse to him, or that I asked for it or wanted it. Says he is a good guy, and was never violent before me (so I am too blame). But the satisfied look while I am sobbing and in agony, is how I know this man has no heart and is evil.

    In fact, the only times I have ever seen my husband cry, is when he felt worried about the possible outcome of his violent actions (for him) [I have made threats of calling the police before to get him to stop, and he gets disgusted with me when I do this, as he blames me for it happening and worries about having a record / bad reputation if I call the police].

    I feel like I am not only living with someone so extremely selfish, but I feel like he is a psychopath.

    I am afraid for my children – if we stay together, or separate…either way I am afraid. He will always be there to poison their minds, and teach them to be just like him. My boys are so innocent and sweet, but what is going to happen to them later? They are obsessed with their dad right now (as they barely see him, so they miss him and crave his attention/affection). My husband does not care about the ‘mundane’ aspects of parenting (he does not cook for them, clean up after them, bathe them, teach them anything, or even really exert much energy to play with them). He conveniently comes home from work every day, right after they’ve gone to bed. In the odd time that he comes home as I am putting them to bed, he will purposely rile them up so that it becomes that much harder for me to put them to sleep. He opposes absolutely every little thing I do as a mom, and I don’t feel he ever has his childrens’ best interests at heart. I think he does love them, but he deflects any of the ‘work’ related to the kids, our home, or anything really!

    I want to shield my kids as much as possible, but feel so helpless and I don’t know what will cause the least amount of damage to them. I don’t want them to have a broken family (they would be so devastated), and I also fear that if we divorce, I will not always be around them to offset any of the crazy, evil things their dad will be teaching them in private….my husband was raised in a highly enmeshed family (a cult really!), and who will be there to play interference if we are separated? I won’t even know what those pyschos are doing 🙁


    • This is very sad to hear. Let’s break the spell of your thinking you cannot leave in a tactical and strategic way. Don’t talk about leaving. Don’t do anything. Right now, read this and WATCH THE VIDEO on here: – http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/opinion/steiner-domestic-violence/index.html?eref=rss_opinion&cid=sf_twitter This is a TED Talk called Crazy Love. You will feel not so alone and powerless after reading and watching. Make sure he is not around when you watch it and then clear the history. Do nothing after you watch. But begin to think about it. Then, silently,stealthily, without saying a word, do research and finally, begin to plan your exit. Even at this stage do not talk. As I say in my book, loose lips sink ships when it comes to divorce. Tom Cruise’s marriage ended because his wife was able to act in stealth mode behind his back. She had an entire cult to escape with its huge legal force behind it and she did it. (Yes,she had a dad who was a lawyer and this is the advice he gave her).

      Right now, change your beliefs. Actions will follow when you are able. Please, pay close attention to this incredible woman’s story. She’s not what one thinks of when you think of a DV victim.

      Just make sure to watch it alone and then, DO NOTHING. Just begin the process in your mind and when you are ready, begin your exit. Not until it is safe should you say anything. You won’t feel so helpless when you have a plan. Your plan can be a safe harbor in your head that brings hope until you are ready. Be well, and best to you. You can do this. Ann

  23. I am coming for a visit back to this site here……wanted to leave a thanks for the nice Support I got.
    I am out of immediately danger….and I hope you all here will make their ways,too.
    god bless you – wishing you all the best !

  24. I have lived with enough narcissists to know, they are evil, pure and simple. The current relationship is bad, and getting progressively worse. He has advanced from just raging (which is no picnic, let me tell you) including name calling, cutting me off from MY OWN FINANCES, threats of violence, to now physical violence, including pushing, slapping, throwing things, etc..he is truly evil. No one but Jesus himself could make me believe otherwise. I am planning an escape now (my second, my first I stupidly came back).. please pray for me.

    • Have you considered psychopathy rather than narcissism? Rather than use the word evil in circumstances like this, how about ‘criminal’. His acts fall into that category and it behooves us to sometimes use the legal remedies we have for criminal actions. Best to you on moving forward, Ann

  25. These predators are evil personified. They shower you with love and affection to start with then the mask falls off and you see the monster. They cannot sustain the honeymoon period for long for whatever reason but usually boredom. I personally have no time for people who defend these monsters they know exactly what they are doing. They are not mentally ill they have a personality disorder. At least with mental illness it is treatable with medication narcissists do not want to be treated they think they are fine as they are. If you are in a relationship with one of these jerks please try to get away because they will suck the life out of you. They are not your reality. Love Mel x

  26. Leaving now! I got a plan; and by GOD I’M FOLLOWING THROUGH!! My children are my hill to die on! And this, this (fill in blank) will not corrupt these innocent souls. Not on my watch!

    Honey if you’re reading this: KISS MY ASS! You will not destroy these kids like you’re “destrooooyed” by your mother. Not this generation! It stops here. No, I didn’t say that right….IT STOPS HERE!!!
    These children WILL know LOVE! Will feel loved! They will know empathy! They will learn to stand up for the truth! By God even if it means standing alone!

    They will know how to protect themselves against the predators of the world (thanks dadddy)! I will teach them the signs, the clues, how to spot the mask wearing evil perpetrator…be it: a preacher, teacher, a father, mother, the “nice” old lady next door… I will teach them how to SPOT EM!

    So thank you honey, you did teach them SOMETHING after all….

    • Eva

      I’m feeling you here
      Be strong
      Get out

      I did
      It’s not the end
      Not with kids involved

      You need to choose the least damaging path

      Both will cause damage
      They only sane choice is to choose the one that’s least.

      Please be strong

  27. In my personal opinion, it isn’t being aspd that makes someone evil, but the abuse that these people often carry out that does on an individual basis.

    My late father’s ex-wife is a narcissist. She is not a malignant narcissist, she simply considers herself a French expatriot/socialite despite the fact that these are both delusions. She often says things that are offensive and does not actually have the empathy to understand their impact, but they are not said maliciously even if they do hurt others. She goes to unusual lengths to maintain her image, and while she will speak poorly or even slander others to maintain it, she has limits. I do not intend to apologize for her behavior, but rather to contrast it…

    My mother, on the other hand, is further downthe narcissistic – sociopathic trench. I call her a malignant narcissist sometimes as a euphemism — I’ve seen a lot of that on these sites — but that’s not what she is. She was abusive to me, to her family, and to the once-friends she scared away over the years – and at no point has she shown that she is capable of feeling guilt or remorse. In her own delusional little world, she has been the perfect parent and the perfect person, and she has gone to great lengths to make sure that nothing tarnishes her outer or self-image.

    Please know or learn the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath that we colloquially call narcissist. They are quite different.

  28. Any person who gets enjoyment only from betraying another is evil. No need to label them as narcs, sociopaths, psychopaths sadists etc. Such a person is evil because they act purposefully to hurt usually someone close to them in order to witness the result of their actions for their own pleasure & to feel relevant & powerful. That is ‘evil’.

  29. I have Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I think that the problem is that we are different of the other people. If you feel that are victims of us because we don’t have empathy , don’t are spontaneous, we are false, don’t love you and use you like an object we see ourselves like victims too. People in general know that we are different and get out before the potential relationship begin. Are Very difficult for us to gain friends, lovers, Jobs. And If we win them last for little time, until people perceive our Narcissistic traits. My long relationship was 7 months. I envy normal people because they get out of a frustrated relationship with a narc but could have sucessful relationship with another normal people after the narc.We with NPD could have only frustrated relationships ALL our lives. Who is the victim? I would like to love and have empathy and my own character, and ALL that you normal people have. But I don’t know why. I know that a have a problem but I was a victim of a traumatized teenage life much worst that your frustrated relationship with a narc. I would like to be normal but the psychiatric and psichology don’t know nothing about my Disorder. And have no treatment or cure. Because they don’t care to trat us. So hate them not us. If has the treatment to NPD I would be the first to do because I don’t like of what I am. Because Narc suffer more in this empathic shit world that you suffer with us. Because I feel like an alien in this shit world. No one understand me. You say of empathy but don’t know how we feel and don’t know how is to be in our place . Ironic don’t? In general we don’t have Narcissistic suply and atention of ALL our relationships. This is frustrating. And you think that are victims only because don’t have love and empathy of a narc? You could have love and empathy of other people. We could have Narcissistic suply and atention of other people? You could chose another partner. We dont
    could chose a partner who give us narcissist suply or atention and couldn’t chose our treatment or cure.Who is the victim?

    • Hi, Thanks for writing. Your disclosures are appreciated – and in return I have a suggestion. Ketamine is being used very successfully now in private practice by some MD’s trained in ketamine infusion. It works dramatically quickly in depression and other disorders. It works apparently by helping to rewire the brain – maybe this might be an avenue for you to explore. If you spend some time with Dr. Google you could perhaps see what is being done in this field. I referred an alcoholic to a ketamine infusion MD and he has, according to his fiancee, had a dramatic personality change for the better. There may be arenas we have yet to explore to treat personality disorders. Best to you, Ann

  30. They don’t see what there doing until it’s pointed out to them, then they deny, underplay it, or simply mutter an apology even though he’s been screaming for hours about something that wasn’t done perfectly, he doesn’t like or he just doesn’t feel loved enough.

  31. My Narcissistic mother is evil. The issue I have as the scapegoated son is that I receive the brunt of the evil behavior. She is a different person when other people are present, and even different more depending on who those people are. I hate her more than I can explain, and if I even tried, no one would believe me because they have only seen the nice sweet church going public face she wears.

  32. Someone once said that no matter how hard you try to please a narcissist it won’t happen, because “pleased” is not what they’re after. Instead, they want you to feel beneath them.

    This illuminates so much when I think back on two different narcs I worked with over the years. One was my boss, and after a few months of trying to get along with her and growing tired of hearing her badmouth so many in our office while smiling to their face I realized she was not interested in clearing the air or coming to some sort of understanding with them. Instead, she was content to sound off to me, the hapless underling pressured to listen without complaint. If she had confronted her “wretched” colleagues and attempted to work through conflicts, then the drama would at least lessen, and where’s the “fun” in that? It’s like she thrived on manufactured, one-sided conflict, whereas I (and others) hate it and want to resolve it. But not the narc.

    The second one in mind was more overtly nasty. After months of meetings with her in which it seemed more than one person left the room baffled, exhausted, and defeated just trying to productively work with her, whenever someone conceded something to her (which was too often) she’d beat them down with more complaints. I finally realized there was no pleasing her because for whatever reason, being pleased was never possible, nor desired. She just wanted our suffering. It wasn’t until individuals (including me) on separate occasions stood up to her BS that she found a job more “worthy” of her talents and left, thankfully. Did I mention she wasn’t even that good at her job?

  33. I got a narcisstic ex to leave by getting his stuff and putting it outside, final time – well only let him back once before that. He was evil, he saw ghosts and he was chased by them he said and was used as a baby for a satanic ritual … then adopted….then abused…….. it has left me shockec, angry, learning all of this about them, im Christian and i believe he was sent by dark forces to get me down, in end i felt like i was losing myself and affectig=n my mind, i wasnted distance and he didnt want me to have that, he raged, then blamed his rage and abuse on him, just … being upset………. no sorry for abuse, his drinking got worse and he seemed like he would lash out…….. at start he love bombed me nad proposed and moved in then the fourth momth raged where his socks where…………….. i know sam vaknin is right about them wanting a mother figure……..

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